Palestinian interior minister interviewed on Executive Force, other issues
BBC Worldwide Monitoring, 23 October 2006
Al-Jazeera Television at 1732 gmt on 22 October broadcasts a recorded 25-minute interview with Sa'id Siyam, interior minister in the Hamas government, by HUSAYN ABD-AL-GHANI in Cairo, from the "Today's Encounter" programme. The date of the interview is not given.
Asked to respond to accusations by some Fatah leaders that he is responsible for the deterioration of the internal conditions by forming the "Executive Force", Siyam says: "These leaders are the ones who contributed to the siege that was imposed on Abu-Ammar [Arafat]. They are the same leaders who wanted to rebel against President Abu-Mazin [Abbas] after he decided to hold the elections. They do not want Hamas to succeed but they want chaos and lawlessness to prevail in the Palestinian street because they have their own agenda.
"The Executive Force is an official force within the Palestinian security services. It was formed with the approval of the cabinet and the brother president. All the administrative and financial arrangements were taken care of when it was formed. It includes members from all sectors of the Palestinian people and it is derived from the various forces and factions."
Siyam denies that the president opposed the formation of the force. He says: "The president approved this force and there are people who can testify that he gave his verbal approval", adding: "They want to put the interior minister and the Executive Force on the defensive because they do not want any stability or security in Palestinian society. Now this issue is no longer pertinent and is not a subject of discussion. We have bypassed it. We do not listen to these voices."
Siyam says: "If all the security forces are from the same political spectrum, if they do not act in accordance with the policy of the government, if they become sluggish, and if some of them plot, it becomes necessary to establish a security force that promotes and implements government policy. Since we in Hamas are in the government, we are committed to making this government successful based on our own thinking. In order to make the picture clear, more than half of this force is from Fatah, the Popular Front [for the Liberation of Palestine], the Democratic Front [for the Liberation of Palestine] and various factions. When we reach the stage where the security forces and the police become a national apparatus that is not affiliated to any group, then we can discuss this issue."
Asked whether the formation of this force is worth the infighting and the casualties that have fallen so far, Siyam says that some media inflate matters out of proportion. He says while the Palestinian blood is valuable, the Palestinian [National] Authority and previous governments spilled this blood "on occasions that were less important". He adds: "When, for instance, demonstrations came out carrying the picture of Bin-Ladin, three people were killed. Some 16 were killed when a demonstration was staged to offer condolences to a martyr's family."
Asked to elaborate, Siyam says: "Mentioning names creates sensitivity and might lead to complications", adding that it is easy for every Palestinian and Arab to know who these sides are. He says: "Within Fatah circles, there are sectors, groups, and honourable and nationalist groups that are aware that there exists in Fatah an Israeli camp that implements a US agenda. Matters have gone to such an extent that a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council said that this is a terrorist government, which is the same description given to this government by the USA and Israel." He says that he does not have to mention names but "we are satisfied that the Palestinian people know these figures". He says they were defeated in the elections and it was very hard for them to "concede defeat".
He says these figures want to undermine this government by colluding with the USA, and adds: "Some Europeans informed us that they would give us three months, but three months passed, followed by another three months. These figures are like losers in a game; they do not know what to do except to foment trouble and create tension." He says there is a current that has a US and Israeli agenda, and it is working with some Arab sides. He adds: "I have heard many Fatah figures and leaders describe this current as a Zionist current. The solution is to stand in the face of this current and work to foil this plot, whose purpose is to drag the Palestinian arena into a serious situation."
On plans to form a national unity government, Siyam says: "We are prepared to form a government based on the Palestinian National Reconciliation Document, which some people do not want to be realized. It would be unacceptable for us to turn against it and run after the US agenda and European demands because this will not lead us to our goals."
Asked about President Abbas's options, including the resignation of the Hamas government, the formation of a technocrat government or holding early elections, Siyam says: "We must know the repercussions of such options. It would not be easy for the Palestinian people, who held free, fair and democratic elections, to turn against themselves. We consider this a coup against the Palestinian legitimacy and a way to enter into the US orbit." Asked whether he fears the elections, he says it must be ascertained whether the Palestinian arena can tolerate this and if circumstances permit, noting that "this is quite unacceptable and we are apprehensive of using this right or these powers because of the consequences that would arise from them".
Asked whether an emergency government can be the appropriate way out to face Israeli PM Olmert's threat of a large-scale invasion of Gaza, he says: "Absolutely not. The only way to face the entire world, and not Olmert alone, is a Palestinian national unity government with Palestinian agenda based on the Palestinian National Reconciliation Document. No other government will succeed because we are a majority in the Palestinian Legislative Council. We can bring down any government and subsequently enter into a controversy on the Palestinian arena and into tension with unforeseen consequences whose extent is only known to God. Therefore, we say: Come, let us adopt the Palestinian National Reconciliation Document, which is the Prisoners Document, whose praise we used to sing in the past, and let us establish a joint government."
Asked what Hamas would do if Abbas dismissed the elected government and decided to take a certain measure against it, Siyam says: "Abbas has the right to dismiss the government but he has no right to give legitimacy to any future government. Therefore, Hamas, within its institutions, will make a decision on the appropriate stand and this decision will be announced when it is made."
Asked if Hamas will resist such a measure even if this results in fighting between Hamas and the presidency, he says: "Absolutely not. The resistance to such a measure will not be sanguinary resistance or clashes. There are enough constitutional, legal and popular measures to enable us to confront anything that we regard as harmful to Palestinian national interests, led by our right in the Legislative Council to bring down any government and rob it of any legitimacy."
Asked if Hamas would field a candidate for the presidency if general elections were held, he says: "I do not want to anticipate events, but one of the scenarios is that the issue will cover the presidency, in the sense that the Palestinian [National] Authority might collapse in a future scenario. We do not want the Palestinian arena to suffer greater confusion than what we already have, especially in view of this invasion and the aggression against the Palestinian people."
Asked about an Israeli newspaper report saying that President Abbas is "preparing an army under US supervision to confront Hamas", Siyam says: "We are perfectly aware that the Israeli press and other media and some other circles as well are trying to raise fears within the Palestinian people, exactly as they tried to raise fears after the Israeli withdrawal: namely, that Hamas would take over the Gaza Strip, would take over the settlements and so on and so forth. These are attempts at fomenting trouble."
Asked once again if Abbas is preparing an army in Jericho under the supervision of Gen Dayton to confront Hamas, Siyam says: "I cannot say if this story is true or not," but notes that "there are things that are going on behind the scene and without the knowledge of the interior minister, such as bringing arms inside the Gaza Strip. We as a government and an interior minister know nothing about this. We do not know what kind of arms they are and who has received them." Asked if these arms are supposed to be for Fatah, he replies that "these arms are supposed to be for the presidency, and this has become common knowledge". He adds: "The president or anyone whom he authorizes can answer the claims of the newspaper but in any case, we absolutely reject any US or other intervention in internal Palestinian conditions and disapprove of backing one side against another because eventually the losers will be the Palestinian people. The wise ones must realize that whoever starts the fire will be the first to be burned."
Asked about reports saying that Hamas had received anti-aircraft weapons similar to the ones that Hezbollah used in confronting Israel, he says: "The Hamas movement categorically denied this and responded to the Zionist claims and said that the aim was to justify further Israeli aggression and escalation." Asked if the reported weapons that arrived in Gaza were relatively heavy or massive, he says: "We heard that the arms are composed of M16s and ammunition." Asked if this will disturb the internal balance, Siyam says: "It is not an issue of balance. We are not two warring armies. We are not feuding tribes. We reject all of this because we are one people."
Asked if Hamas will eventually fall under the domination of Syria, he says: "We are not under the domination or aegis of anyone. As a movement, we have our own decision-making. Days and years have proven that Hamas's decisions are institutionalized and democratic and that no side can interfere in their making. However, we benefit from any door or an arena that might be opened to us as Palestinians and a movement."
Asked to explain the "deterioration" of Hamas's relations with Saudi Arabia and Egypt, he says that relations with Egypt have not deteriorated. He says: "Even with Jordan, we did not cause any deterioration in relations. If Jordan wants to end these relations, we do not."
On Saudi Arabia, Siyam says Hamas expressed some reservations on points in the Saudi peace initiative, adding that "probably this has cast a shadow" on relations and "probably created sensitivity". He adds: "We are not the obstacle. Neither the Israelis nor the Americans recognize the initiative or deal with it. Mr Amr Musa [secretary-general of the Arab League] said it is dead and no longer on the table. Then why is Hamas cornered and asked to accept initiatives that are no longer presented for discussion?"
On the Hamas-Iranian relations, he says: "Iran is an Islamic state, which is being targeted by the USA and Israel. Syria is an Arab state that is targeted. Hezbollah is also targeted and so is Hamas. Therefore, we can call this the axis of resistance and defiance. What unites them is the fact that they are all targeted. Therefore, we have the right to establish ties with states that open their doors for us."
Asked finally if Israel's Shaul Mufaz will implement his threat to prevent him from returning to his country and to his position, he says "Needless to say, I care for my people and for their blood more than anyone else. I am not seeking to impose the authority of the Executive Force. I want to restore prestige to all the security services. However, I have inherited broken and ruined security services and it is my right to establish a force to protect the project of this government." He also says: "Mufaz and others are not the ones who decide if I can return or not. This is my right. God willing, I will return. We are not afraid of their threats and we have prepared ourselves to face all difficulties and hardships."
Source: Al-Jazeera TV, Doha, in Arabic 1732 gmt 22 Oct 06